The Big SlutWalk Singapore Trolling Wankfest of Doom 2011
by Shimona Ng
The New Paper ran a story that distorted SlutWalk’s goals, which created a massive backlash against the campaign, sparked rage on the web, and drew an army of trolls to SlutWalk.
Three major ways The New Paper distorted SlutWalk’s goals
1. We believe “mentally raping” is actual rape
The New Paper made it seem like we equate “mentally raping” with rape. They printed these terrible quotes without any context:
The elderly man was staring down at me, as if he was mentally raping me. I asked him in Hokkien: ‘Uncle, what are you looking at?’ Then he looked away.
and
When a woman dresses up, she is bound to get some attention, but she is not asking for rape.
Why did they print this in a SlutWalk feature? Why didn’t they denounce it? Their intentions are clear: They wanted to turn the movement into a joke. They wanted to make people enraged. They might as well have printed: “I was playing StarCraft 2 and a bunch of banelings blew up all my marines, it was like being virtually raped.” Or, “I bought a lightsaber on eBay and got hit with a huge customs tax, it was like being fiscally raped.” Or, “I am a designer and I was forced to use Comic Sans, it was like being artistically raped”. What do all these statements have in common? All of it is irrelevant to SlutWalk. All of it trivialises rape and makes a mockery out of real suffering. All of it, and anything like it, should have been either A) not printed or B) printed and condemned by The New Paper. Instead, they printed it and left it floating in a vacuum.
People brilliantly decided this person was representative of everyone going for SlutWalk and hurled their hate at SlutWalk. The internet exploded with anger:
Arcturuz says: elderly man has every right to check you out bitch.
Societe says: Might as well erect laws to allow them to dig the eyes of guys whom they dont like out.
Fyukpap says: they are trying to legalize public scolding on men who “rape” them even with their eyes.
Badzmaro says: So now we are all presumed guilty until proven innocent?
Fudgester says: if they’re stupid enough to organize this idiotic event, they fully deserve all the ogling they’re gonna get on that day.
Elindra says: I cannot understand this SlutWalk movement. If you want to dress skimply, expect men to ogle.
2. We are a copy of a movement for “the right to dress sexy”
They tried to make it seem like SlutWalkSG was a blindly-copied, substanceless version of SlutWalk, with A) No sluttiness and B) No walking. They helpfully wrote:
But you don’t have to dress like a slut to take part in SlutWalk Singapore. And, oh, there is no walk either.
Unlike SlutWalks held in western countries where skimpy outfits to protest against sexual violence, SlutWalk Singapore organisers here urge supporters to “come as they are” – whether in T-shirt and jeans, fishnets, sari women thronged the streets in, jacket or tudung.
Why adopt the name SlutWalk when they have chosen to downplay the word “slut”?
They even had a whole separate article called “Experts: smart to give it a local twist”.
Every single SlutWalk has encouraged people to wear whatever they want. SlutWalk Austin proudly states on their Facebook page, they ‘encourage all to wear what feels comfortable’. SlutWalk Melbourne’s FAQ says there is “no need to dress differently from how you normally would.” SlutWalk San Francisco’s blog says, “Wear what makes you feel comfortable, whether that’s a tiny dress or a long-sleeve floor-length dress.”
And SlutWalk Singapore is no different — the clothes are not the point. The point is to break free from the shame created by traditional stereotypes and conventional ideas about sexuality, and reclaim the freedom to express our sexuality without fear of being labelled a certain way.
The New Paper also declares we are campaigning for “the right to dress sexy.”
They ran this on their front page:
Why protest? We want the right to dress sexy.
And they named their article “Slutty? We’re just sexy.”
Over and over again, they printed random nonsense about sexiness:
“… you can dress sexily and not look slutty.”
“We all have the right to dress sexy.”
“When we were young, our parents told us not to dress too sexy…”
Who said these things? The ramblings of a few people who they say ‘support’ SlutWalkSG; by The New Paper’s definition, anyone who says they might (or might not) turn up for SlutWalk. Or anyone who says dressing sexy is great (but only for people who have a “good figure”). Or anyone who thinks dressing sexy is fine except “we also need to be aware of the risk when we do so and take precautions.” Do any of these people sound like actual SlutWalk supporters?
Let’s get this straight: SlutWalk fights for the right to express our sexuality free from shame, hate and abuse. Sexuality is infinitely more complex and beautiful than “dressing sexy.” The New Paper twisted our mission into something people could make fun of without thinking critically about any of the issues surrounding sexual diversity, sex choices and freedom from sexual abuse.
Haters take to the internet to rage about this lazy, frivolous movement:
Dalforce says: People dressed as sluts you also want to follow. No brain. People eat shit, you also eat shit ar?
Handsome boy says: I don’t know if this whole SlutWalk thing is necessary or relevant in Singapore, or if it’s just another copycat idea by women here who think that just because some women in a Western country is affected by it, they should be too.
Dalforce 25 says: There is no need to follow western sluts. I oppose the slut walk.
Societe says: should ship all of them to Middle East or Africa or India/Pakistan and give them the equality they want. Living in poverty and fear of being raped or splashed acid/slashed by spurned men, getting belted by husbands for not having cooked dinner when he reaches home.
Dalforce25 says: All these things have nothing whatsoever to do with local people.
Twinings says: these people are taking things for granted as singapore is supposedly “safe” as compared to other countries. Try asking these females to wear the way they wear to India, or even up north.
Dalforce 25 says: Our local people don’t have the tradition of women dressing up as sluts in public. This is against local tradition. I completely disapprove. Pui. Garbage.
Societe says: Women in Singapore are too bloody free, look at Pinoys, Indonesian women, Chinese sent everywhere to be maids and whores.
Plasticpistola says: they should hold slutwalk at some taliban stronghold in afghanistan. then they’ll REALLY know what is women’s’ rights.
Societe says: they should go US and see what equality they have. No jobs. Kena whack and abused by husband.
Jabberwocker says: not as if singapore have issues of having high rape cases due to women dressing scantily. i heard some countries have lah, but not appilcable to SG ba. Some women just love to stir shit so much…
Societe says: what’s wrong? Singapore girls have the best life in the whole farking world. girls elsewhere either get raped, molested or be worried that they would be raped/molested or disfigured, out of jobs or in poverty. here in Singapore all happily wait for their prince and protected by law and charter, dont have to do NS, low birthrate and they still want equality. what a joke.
3. We are a select group of privileged women
What did The New Paper put on its front page? A full-page image of a stereotypically-attractive, female-bodied Chinese person — with typically-feminine long, black, flowing hair, staring and pouting into the camera in a modelesque way that conforms to conventional ideas about sexy.
Inside the paper, we are greeted by more pictures of young, thin, Chinese women with the same long, blow-dried hair wearing uniformly revealing outfits— miniskirts, cleavage-baring tops; clothes that people would consider sexy only if they define ‘sexy’ in a very narrowly defined way.
When you go to SlutWalkSG’s website, what is the first thing you see? Pictures of real supporters. And these first few pictures depict a diversity far greater than The New Paper chose to portray. We see people of different ethnicities and genders sporting everything from tee shirts and hijabs to piercings and dreadlocks. Clearly, SlutWalkSG is much more inclusive than The New Paper wants you to think.
Take a look at SlutWalkSG’s teaser video, Slut Tease. It becomes even clearer that SlutWalk SG is for everyone — people of all body sizes/types, all ethnicities, all walks of life, all genders, all sexual orientations, including people from the LGBTQ community, the BDSM community, alternative lifestyle and poly scenes — decked out in tattoos, dresses, leather, formal shirts, and BDSM gear. SlutWalkSG is hardly the homogeneous group The New Paper would have you believe.
Despite this, people feel empowered to make a variety of sexist comments to discredit the female clones of SlutWalk:
Platee says: EPIC PHAIL. ONLY PROVES WOMEN HAS NO BASIC INTELLIGENCE’
Rock^Star says: I think women in slutwalk have pretty low IQ.
Plasticpistola says: women’ and ‘logic’ is an oxymoron.
Fyukpap says: the law states : Man is reasonable” when did it say that women are?
Boink! says: these gurls are better off in the kitchen making me a samwich!
Motherliquor.P says: Later become like occupy raffle place one la. cos they busy making sandwiches.
Globe says: is this another one of those meaningless girl power thing … got so much time why dun spending it trying to help up the singapore population instead of doing this nonsense thing.
Ohayo! says: women are the ones responsible for slut-shaming, ‘actually, guys dont call them sluts. they(women) call each other that.
Deadbeat says: women hate women. FACT!
Siliconchip says: Yuck, there might be some fat, saggy aunties in it. People will be blinded.
Zuzuvovo says: please QC before letting them go there lol.. i have a feeling all pudge wearing mini skirts.
Senna Wales says: If those women are 601, naked also no feeling.
Ohmydog says: I’m protesting this movement. the term slut are prefer to beautiful sexy woman. singapore woman? go be transformer instead…
Gottafilling says: I expect a lot of lians to turn up…
PoYePoLuoMi claims these women are just trying to seduce foreign men: just rike SPG… wanna choose angmo partners rather den asian one CB.
CSNation agrees emphatically: SPG tactic — 1) Wear boyfriend T-shirt or his office shirt, 2) Go commando, 3) Wear slippers, 4) Meet ur like minded sistars., 5) Parade down orchard road, 6) Hook some angmohs, 7) ?????????
The distortions raise an army of trolls
A vast array of people have expressed interest in coming to SlutWalk to: stalk, troll, slap, spit on, hurl stones at, take downblouse photos of, and sexually humiliate these ‘sluts’:
[TRIGGER WARNING]
Societe says: can we spit at the sluts? they call themselves sluts ma. no one else did.
Somatic3 says: I will bring down a sign that says: ‘Come redempt your Free Bitch Slap, SLUTS.
Unaware says: Just gather along the road where they gonna walk and keep making those kissing sounds and wolf-whistle. Then maybe go “Very naise, how much?” ala Borat.
Lousydk says: singapore men should have a Anti-sluts walk at the same date, time and location.
Stormthundarr says: Should organize lecherwalk, pedowalk, pervwalk.
Societe says: we go there point at them call them sluts, anyone game for it?
Stormthundarr: remembers fondly in some places, these sluts are paraded around in cages, and the villagers will throw rotten eggs, vegetables or even stones at them.
Deadbeat says: anyone interested going to troll them? count me in!
Arcturuz says: anyone wanna organise EDMW outing to Hong Lim with DSLR cams? Take photos of all the sluts and show them what’s dirty EDMW men.
Crabs. says: who will bring ladder and their dslr camera there?
Leaving_footsteps says: Just don’t kpkb when people take photos etc. You asked for it. Don’t complain when you get it.
-Kent- says: how about a walk to celebrate the freedom to look at women without being called dirty old men?
Societe says: Let’s start a Dirty Old Man Stroll.
Marill says: girls who call themselves sluts will be walking around to let men beo them dips dips! sibeh sexciting!
It degenerates into a big victim-blaming, slut-shaming wankfest
[HUGE TRIGGER WARNING]
Kel666 says: u have the right to dress as sluts, those perverts have the right to rape u lol.
ZerozeroZero says: Essentially there’s nothing much to be debated here. Rapists are rapists, you dress skimpily you will arouse them and they will rape you.
Fyukpap says: by inviting and if they got raped, only they themselves are to be blamed.
Don’tmakemecereal-lie says: i wonder if someone organises a RapeWalk on the day of SlutWalk.
Genericperson says: The logic and reasoning of slutwalk is quite questionnable leh, if it is their right to be a slut, what if someone happen to rape them is it not the right of the rapist to rape them?
Rhater says: Well, you can do anything you wanted. But whatever happens that caused by what you done, you have to accept it. If you are clever, then find ways to prevent it.
ZerozeroZero says: Like, if i rode a bike without a helmet and smash my head, i cant blame the bike for being fail. Because even if the bike fails, had i wore a helm, my head wouldnt be smashed.
Twinings says: dressing like one [a slut] increases the probability [of rape].
Genericperson says: for me (as a man) it is illogical. It is very much like you are showing/parading/inviting people to buy something then refused to sell them the said stuff. It’s like you women went past shoe shop that shows off all those shoes that you like and they refuse to sell those shoes to you.
AngryPiglet says: They want to be sluts… and yet they want men to respect them.. What irony.
AKTSUKIKeeper says: you dress for the respect you want what. dress what you want lah, just prepare for the consequence.
Alvyn07 says: I don’t understand. My parents taught me never to flaunt expensive: 1. Watches 2. Gadgets 3. Phones 4. Etc if I didn’t want people to steal them. Isn’t it thus common fu*king sense to NOT flaunt ur assets if you don’t want anything bad to happen to you?!
Jeraldine says: We should be allowed to wear whatever we want, its our RIGHT.” is equivalent to “we should be allowed to ‘express’ our wealth when we are walking home alone late at night!” or “We should be allowed to leave all our doors unlocked! It is our right!”
Somatic3 says: You want something and demand something, you pay a price. Ladies who deem that they have a right of not being a victim of a rape for dressing scantly, is wrong. What you claim is that rapist who cannot control their libido is to be blamed, instead of you wearing scantly? And that if you say no the rapist is just to walk away? Clearly something is amiss here. You decide to flaunt your “assets”, you pay the price “if” a mishap happen to you, this has nothing to do with whether you have the right to wear whatever you want. It goes both ways, not just one way. Same for flaunting your valuables outside, you pay a price for the “Recklessness”.
Yeshenyue says: [In reply to: "If she says "no", then it is the man's responsibility to resist the temptation of sexual desire and greater physical strength"] The motion is absolutely ridiculous. It does nothing to help men get over getting horny over a girl who dresses skimpily because it’s NATURAL reaction.
Bangulzai says: they are s-l-u-t because they invite l-u-s-t.
The Big SlutWalk Singapore Trolling Wankfest of Doom has shown us how incredibly important it is for us to bring SlutWalk to Singapore. We need to break this vicious cycle of victim-blaming and rape apologism. We must break the silence around sexual abuse created by pointless hating and shaming.
SlutWalk has created a moment in space and time where all of us can take a stand against slut-shamers and haters who claim expressing our sexuality is disgracing or degrading, and come together to create a better world where no one will ever have to be ashamed of being raped or abused again. Let’s seize this chance to join the universal fight against sexual violence, by bringing our bodies, voices and ideas to Hong Lim Park for the first ever SlutWalk Singapore.
Further reading:
The New Paper: Slutty? We’re just sexy
Stomp: SlutWalk S’pore: “If women have the right to dress sexy, men have the right to look”
Hardwarezone Forum: SlutWalk Hits Singapore
SgForums: SG women prepare to take part in SlutWalk at Hong Lim Park
–
Shimona has been helping out with SlutWalkSG’s campaign.
Trackbacks
- The New Paper “twisted our mission into something people could make fun of” – Slutwalk Singapore | The Online Citizen
- Zoroukah – The New Paper “twisted our mission into something people could make fun of” – Slutwalk Singapore
- SlutWalk – No need to get your knickers in a twist. | funny little world
- | The Online Citizen
- Zoroukah – SlutWalk – No need to get your knickers in a twist
- No Need To Get Your Knickers in a Twist « SlutWalk Singapore
- No Need To Get Your Knickers in a Twist « SlutWalk Singapore
- Thoughtdump: I’m a girl and this is why I hate the term ‘SlutWalk’ (but not what it seeks to achieve) « Kaya Toast & Coffee
I’m so incredibly angry reading some of the comments. A great shame for society, humantiy, women, men, people. More than ever we need slutwalk here, and the people who claim it is irrelevant to us here have just proved that point.
Why do we insist on feeding these trolls with an entire post devoted to them?
Correct The New Paper’s article, yes, but for heaven’s sake – comments fields on SPH websites (especially TNP) are minefields of the morose.
We should be putting our energy into greater things than getting mad at a bunch of ignorant, bigoted children.
It’s hard not to be angry when comments like that proliferate. Trolls they may be, but we also need to vent our anger! Keeping it in will also cause us to explode in other ways. This is also to let TNP know that they did a terrible job and should be ashamed of it.
Rest assured that energy spent on such posts will not diminish our efforts to work on “greater things”. In fact, once we get the anger out of the way, we can better focus on the important things to be done.
TNP is just a piece of tabloid I use to wipe my ass. They’ve always been full of shit. After reading this, I realized, we need SlutWalk more than ever.
Sorry ladies with all do respect, and I mean it, I think that the slut walk doesn’t apply to our society. Here’s a good read ok http://atgsociety.com/2011/06/%e2%80%98slutwalk%e2%80%99-and-the-negation-of-female-sexuality/
Read through it, and see it for urself, that ur campaign is just a fun thing that you guys shouldn’t take so seriously about.. Nothin in this world will change, there is no such thing as reclaim the word slut, so take this as just u know something girls do when they have their free time
What shouldn’t I take seriously? The rape and assaults I have experienced? The fact that my identity in many ways makes those attacks justifiable to society? I’m glad to know that you think this is something girls (how infantilising) do in their “free time”. But no. This is about survival. This is about my life. If you are content with living in a society where rapes are perpetrated by individuals but abetted by the entire culture of violence, then more fool you, because these are our lives at stake.
And with no respect due to you at all, please leave if you don’t think that this is a serious matter. Who the hell are you to tell people who are survivors and supporters that they shouldn’t take what happened to them seriously.
*due
*yourself
*your
*Nothing
*reclaiming
*”slut”
*you
Wow, Jon, seriously, get an education. And THAT’s the best defense you have? An article from “Alfred The Great Society” (which, by the way, needs to work on their name; it’s either Society of Alfred the Great, or Alfred the Great’s Society; HE’s not the society), some obscure extreme Christian site? I think I’m starting to understand why you’re so “special”.
Jon: “Dressing modestly helps women to avoid a type of attention that is potentially oppressive.”
i wear long sleeves & jeans to work everyday. i still get attention that i don’t like.
ive also heard people go “wonder what she looks like under all that wrapping (i.e. tudung), must be like unwrapping a present.. etc etc” to some muslim girls walking past them.
trust me, sexual assault has nothing to do with clothes. read up. have conversations
So ur campaign Is supposed to change the way how men see women ?? Just because some of u have been offended or mistreated in ur context doesn’t justify that that’s how the entire society men are like.
Wouldn’t a champaign against crime be wait more effective rather than asking for the rights to wear whatever you want and not be objectivity by men? Surely no one is stopping u to wear what you want, but when rape happens it’s s criminal problem, not because of the society we live in.
Anyone can get robbed, we prevent it by not going into dangerous alleys alone or we save guard our belongings.
If a girl gets raped, she is not to blame that I completely agree! But telling people that even if these type of things are still going on, “girls have the rights to wear what we want”
Freedom comes with a price, this will provoke more stares from people, higher CRIMINAL activities.
Understand that sexual attraction happens all the time, u can’t change things essential for the human race. Food, water and reproduction.
I feel sorry for all those rape victims. It is wrong to say it’s the female’s fault. But how is ur cause gonna change anything?
Just my 2 cents
So, let’s run with your idea and organize a campaign against rape. And what do you think the response from people like you will be? It will be the same i.e. if “girls” don’t want to get raped, then they should take a few precautions e.g. not dress provocatively, not behave in an unbecoming manner that would attract predators, not “provoke more stares from people”, avoid quiet areas, not go out alone, etc. etc. No matter how you frame it, it boils down to one thing – the fault lies with the women, sorry, “girls”, and somehow if they “tone down” their behaviour and dressing, the number of rape incidents will decrease.
The fact that you compare robberies with rape shows that you buy into the rape myths – i.e. rape is a spontaneous act by a stranger in dark alleys brought on by the dressing and behaviour of the victim. And if the victim had exercised common sense, this act could have been prevented. And is your assertion that “sexual attraction happens all the time” an euphemism for “it cannot be helped”? So much for your “If a girl gets raped, she is not to blame that I completely agree!” statement.
All the more reason why SlutWalk is needed.
Hi Gemini-
“The fact that you compare robberies with rape shows that you buy into the rape myths – i.e. rape is a spontaneous act by a stranger in dark alleys brought on by the dressing and behaviour of the victim. And if the victim had exercised common sense, this act could have been prevented. And is your assertion that “sexual attraction happens all the time” an euphemism for “it cannot be helped”? So much for your “If a girl gets raped, she is not to blame that I completely agree!” statement.”
-The reason why i likened Rape and Robbery is simply because they are acts of crimes committed to unknowing victim rather than a individual problem of rape alone.
-When a robbery happens, who blames the victim? No one. What could have been done was maybe a little precaution but ultimately it could happen to anyone man, woman, children.
“the fault lies with the women, sorry, “girls”, and somehow if they “tone down” their behaviour and dressing, the number of rape incidents will decrease.”
-How is asking you to take little precaution “degrading” to your pride. If i asked you to lock your doors at night before you go to bed, is that “degrading” to you? Or when a school does back ground checks on teachers, is that “degrading” to the students. An act of violence/rape is an act alone that has no bridge to dressing as you please cause you wanna change what society thinks. How/Where/Why did you all come up with this Conclusion that EVERYBODY IN THE SOCIETY BLAMES THE FEMALE WHEN SHE IS RAPED. HOW? Please tell me and explain to me how that conclusion came about.
Correct me if i’m wrong from here. This is how i see your cause:
1) You feel objectified when men stares you down and mentally rapes you and you are not happy about it
2) You feel you have the rights to wear whatever you want, and not be judged by the public
3) Wearing what you want/skimpily doesn’t give men the rights to sexually assault you
4) you want to reclaim the word Slut, sorry Re appropriate the word Slut.
5) You want to have the Sexual freedom to express yourselves
You want to sexually express yourselves by exposing more skin AND you don’t want the public (well mainly Men) to objectify you. Meaning, you want society to think that erotic dressing shouldn’t be erotic anymore, here’s a piece “While the prostitute dresses revealingly because she recognizes that she is an inherently sexual being whose body is charged with erotic suggestion, the participants of Slutwalk have embraced a narrative which denies that the revealed body is necessarily charged with erotic suggestion. In so doing, these walks are negating the very sexuality they claim to be celebrating.” So how are you expressing Sexual freedom again since the aim of this campaign is to de-sexualize the female body to the point where no men will ever, objectify you again?
So lets say this campaign becomes a success aite, we get more girls who start wearing more revealing clothes, you got your message out that rape is wrong (like it already isn’t known), how on earth, will this stop rape from happening? PLEASE enlighten me! I’m not saying i can do a better campaign or give you my piece of what your campaign should be like, but ultimately your end product, will merely be just a passing fad of feminism that will be picked on by fool in the public with no brains. TNP is a stupid paper, those who gave comments were just stupid mindless thoughtless suggestions.
So long as you wear skimpily you are bound to be objectified. Period. There is nothing you can do about it. How about i walk around with a huge cumcumber underneath my shorts, and when i get stares from women, i’m going to through a campaign because i feel objectified. I feel offended i’m being looked upon as a sexual figure.
I would have to say, this is a good cause but ONE thing is for sure. There isn’t a bridge that links SLUT and RAPE, they are 2 different entities that shouldn’t be glued. I like it that you are fighting to tell the public it is wrong to rape, no matter what! – that’s great. I want to wear whatever i want be it only bra or just panties and i don’t want you to judge me cause i can do whatever the hell i please and i have the rights not to be (raped??) – not so great.
Good luck with your campaign i’ve said my piece.
Hi Jon, you sound like a rational person. I hope you understand that the slutwalk isn’t just about wearing skimpy clothes or dressing according to the stereotypical ideas of a ‘slut’.
I’m not sure if you noticed this in societies but women are taught (formally and informally; directly and indirectly eg. social norms, school rules) to dress in a certain way so women won’t be portrayed in a certain way that lures men and their “lecherous tendencies” (which is also, another social construct). It’s not just about the dressing. It’s about the mentality women live in – fear, stemming from that “vulnerability” in society. It is as if women is a suppressed “race”. And this also applies to gay or lesbian communities. There’s many to blame if we were to start pointing fingers (eg. media, gahmen, education, societal norms).
Ultimately, a name is just a name. ‘Slut’ doesn’t mean anything until a meaning is given – a context and societal meaning. It is hard to understand maybe because some people are not part of this in-group and it’s hard to empathize and even if they do, it’s temporal. It’s not just ALL about one’s dressing.
Why do men not have to live in fear of being raped? I’m not saying that men should live in the same fear as women, but something needs to be done. This fear adds on to the vulnerability and women being “second grade” (by the way, for those who do not know, women in the past were revered as godlike due to their childbearing ‘abilities’ but things changed when societies changed).
In all honesty, I do feel that the slutwalk is not going to change anything. I am a woman and as much as I would like to fight for equal rights and against gender discrimination in all areas of life, I am ambivalent over it. Simply because 1. it’s a fight that cannot be done (in my opinion) within a century; it will be a long and tiring fight that will result in really nothing 2. women do have privileges (eg. in law, regarding slander) although its benefits and extents are really debatable 3. I would like to exploit those privileges and am willing to live with that gender discrimination (until I change my mind in future).
If spreading the word is what they truly want, then perhaps there’s much more controversy to stir, but how much help will they get from the local media?
Jon. Rape isnt as much about sexuality as it is about power. Read the research. I’ve read so many articles where it is made very clear that to the rapist, it isnt as much about fulfilling his sexual need, than just the idea that he is completely dominating someone else who is powerless to stop him.
Girls can dress however they want, it is not going to stop rapists. Girls get raped even if they are all covered up. Clearly they are not the problem. If you cannot wrap your head around that, think about this: Rape happens in all cultures, in all countries. Muslim and Indian women etc, who, quite clearly are the most modestly dressed of the lot, STILL GET RAPED.
Rapists wont pick targets they cannot overpower. If you think that the onus is on women to prevent that, then wouldnt that be severely limiting the freedom of more petite, diminutive women?! They can be covered from head to toe, and still, they will be targetted over more provocatively dressed but stronger appearing females. Thinking that dressing in any way is the key to preventing rape seriously needs to be debunked.
Like you, i’m a man who understands that male sexuality is a very powerful thing. It can act upon us in the most random times. But what is a physical reaction should not be translated into a forceful CRIMINAL behaviour against women. No one is stopping us from being turned on. No one said that we are not allowed to acknowledge female beauty. Surely, girls who dress up to look their best want to be acknowledged that they are beautiful. I dont think any girl (in the right mind/who doesnt have a bone to pick with you) will tell you that you are a monster for noticing that. However, once you cross the threshold of admiring to forcefully infringing on someone else’s right to not want to be that close to you – that’s wrong. RAPE is the thing being discussed here, not objectification. (I know many stupid/mindless women/feminists who dont even know what cause they are supporting using slutwalk to justify whatever problems they have with the males in their lives, but i’m asking you to ignore the fools and see the real message behind slutwalk)
You need to stop taking Slutwalk so personally, and recognise that when rape happens, it is usually those men that are at fault because it is them who are carrying out the act. (Obviously, this excludes the false rape claims blah blah)
Us men, are the ones with the power to STOP RAPE. Slutwalk is just a vehicle for women to send out that message to us that how they dress is NOT permission to rape them, that we seriously need to slap ourselves if we think that we are not in control of our sexuality. I am, are you? We are allowed to dress however we want, so should they. Us as men, need to MAN UP, and when someone from our camp is too weak and not in control of his own sexuality, should slap some sense into him instead of senselessly blaming the victim for just being out of her house.
Take the higher road and dont nitpick. Sure, slutwalk is a very controversial name designed to attract attention. Whether or not that was a good idea, the people who started it did not expect it to propagate this far. The message behind slutwalk, however, is what has caused so many other countries to pick up on its importance and try to organise its own events while banking on the awareness that slutwalk has generated.
If i have any sons in the future, i will hopefully empower them with the same knowledge. And if i have any daughters, i hope that other people have taught their sons the same thing, i hope that you will have taught your sons the same thing.
I’ve said my piece too.
I have one last thing to add. Please keep in mind that rape isnt a us vs them, men vs women thing. When someone gets raped, her entire family, men and women get affected. Rape isnt a crime against women it is a crime against humanity (Also, men get raped too!) Stop fighting the cause, start educating. And as always, educate yourself first before you start educating others.
Find me a newspaper cutting or something just something aite that states ” girl got raped because she wore very revealing clothes and SHE was to the cause of it, so lets just all blame here and not talk about the rapist or the crime”
All these thoughts of society blaming Slutty dressing as a cause for rape, have been FABRICATED in your brains, NOT the society’s.
Don’t bring an entire society of men to their knees. You Ladies make it seem that men are just assholes. Way to go! This IS a feminist movement, it doesn’t matter if you say that men and women alike can take part in it. It’s a one sided cause which lacks credibility.
John, do you know anything about the history of Slutwalk? Please read here: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/story/2011/04/03/slut-walk-toronto.html
The very origin of Slutwalk lies in a *policeman’s* comment that “women should avoid dressing like sluts in order not to be victimized”.
Not to mention, you just have to read some of the awful comments posted (“u have the right to dress as sluts, those perverts have the right to rape u lol”, “Well, you can do anything you wanted. But whatever happens that caused by what you done, you have to accept it. If you are clever, then find ways to prevent it”) to know that victim-blaming is not something the organisers of SlutWalk decided to “FABRICATE” one day for the hell of it.
*Jon.
who ever wants to reply to me, don’t argue to me about feminism girl power and women’s pride. Those are not the matter at hand, look at what i’ve written and if you can can have a better justification for your cause go ahead and debate it out.
Jon,
If you wear a large cucumber underneath your shorts, do I have the right to assault you? If you feel comfortable with a cucumber, than it’s your prerogative, nothing to do with me as you are not harming me. I mean it is your bloody body, not mine. Seriously, what nonsense are you spouting? And yes, “Wearing what you want/skimpily doesn’t give men the rights to sexually assault you” is exactly right, but I get the feeling you are disagreeing with the statement for reasons only best known to yourself. As for the word “slut”, are you really ignorant regarding the context it is used, and how liberally it is being used? Please don’t quote the dictionary, and pretend it is used as is intended (which is bad enough by itself). And what on earth is wrong with being sexually liberated? What is your problem?
Your comment “The reason why i likened Rape and Robbery is simply because they are acts of crimes committed to unknowing victim rather than a individual problem of rape alone.” clearly shows you are buying into the chief rape myth, namely, the overwhelming majority of rapes are committed by strangers who are unknown to the victims. Your other comment around equating dressing with rape also buys into another rape myth which is dressing provokes the rapist into raping. And your third statement “I want to wear whatever i want be it only bra or just panties and i don’t want you to judge me cause i can do whatever the hell i please and i have the rights not to be (raped??) – not so great.” scares the hell out of me because it also buys into another rape myth i.e. the rapists rape because they cannot control their urges, are driven by visual images, and that rape is a spur-of-the-moment act. (So, what do you do when you come across a lingerie ad, or are at the beach, dear Jon?) Plus the fact that you do not realize/recognize there is a lack of consent is very troubling indeed.
Why don’t you educate yourself on the myths surrounding rape (hint: just Google), and then come back for a meaningful discussion. Another hint: Check out the blogposts, videos and FAQ on this very website for starters.
Regarding prostitutes, tell me, does consent play a part, or does it not? You do realize prostitutes can be raped, don’t you, or do you think just because they are in the sex trade, you could do to them what you like? Or is this consent thing really too difficult a concept for you to grasp?
According to Amy M. Buddie and Arthur G. Miller, “individuals may endorse rape myths and at the same time recognize the negative effects of rape.” Which is exactly what you’re doing here (and I am being charitable). And which is exactly what I am coming across all the time whenever SlutWalk is discussed. For all the talk about sympathizing with the rape victim, it is amazing how much ignorance there is out there surrounding rape (or any sexual violence). And all the advice about dressing/behaving “appropriately” or “decently” or “modestly” or “not tempting the rapists” is nothing but hogwash, which distracts us from the facts, and sends out the (very wrong) message that only “sluts” get raped (and if you get raped, well then you must have been behaving or dressing like one) and that only strangers rape (so if you are raped by someone you know, well, perhaps, it is not rape). Never mind that your idea of modesty may not be in sync with another person’s, and that the end result is every woman is a slut at one point in time or another. And never mind that the majority of rapes are committed by persons already known to the victims.
But this is just an inconvenient truth, isn’t it Jon, that gets in the way of telling “girls” how to dress and behave in the manner that pleases you?
Ok so tell me what the cause is all about.
Go to http://www.slutwalksg.com, look at the pictures that appear on the first page, then click “About”. That should tell you what the “cause is all about”. Then read the blogs, and don’t forget to check out the teaser video. Not too difficult is it?
Here’s another thing about comparing robbery to rape:
Robbery is the theft of property. Rape is sexual violence against the integrity of someone else’s body. Patriarchal capitalism encourages the equation of the body with property, but that is not the case, nor should it ever be. Because bodies-as-property is slavery.
Robbery is not like rape because our bodies are not property. You can leave your wallet at home. You can leave your front door locked. But you cannot leave your body behind when you step outside, can you? You cannot leave your body at home, either, which is another place where sexual assault is committed. People are raped when they wear concealing clothing, and when they aren’t. Dress is not a criterion. The entitlement that the rapist feels towards the body of another – that is the common factor.
Jon boy (you don’t mind me calling you that do you, from your usage of the word “girls”, that shows all of us just the type we’re dealing with), from everything that you’ve said it is clear that you haven’t read SlutWalk’s manifesto, or if you have, you clearly don’t understand it. From the quality of your writing, you don’t seem to grasp English very well, so maybe we have to make allowances for that.
To express one’s sexuality means: to express one’s feminity/masculinity. Doesn’t have to involve dressing “slutty”. It isn’t like what you’ve described at all. A lot of women get unwanted attention even when they’re dressed modestly. One of the things this movement is protesting against is that tendency for society to tell women to dress appropriately to “stay safe”. Really, considering many women still get unwanted attention when dressed “un-sluttily”, that’s a daft piece of advice considering sexual assault happens regardless of how the victim is dressed. The advice is rendered all the more dangerous as it fosters an attitude detrimental to her recovery – even her own attitude to herself. Plus indeed, most sexual assaults are committed by persons known to the victim, so it is clear that your argument is uninformed.
I am appalled at your comparing rape with robbery for reasons M. has already stated. Again it just shows how uninformed you are.
From your comments, and indeed from many others that I’ve seen, the general Singaporean public does need to get educated, SlutWalk’s manifesto really needs to be brought out there. Men and women need to get behind it.
Hey Jon,
Are you from the Paleolithic era ? Do you not realise that there are rules people are bound too. Simple one, you don’t cross the road when traffic light is red. Are you so mindless that you have your dick lead you instead of your head and rationale ?
Ever heard of the 3 second rule of eye contact in america ?
I was molested in a public bus when i was wearing a loose black polo- T and straight cut jeans (not skinny jeans ). I dressed ‘conservatively’ hoping not to attract molesters. Then why was i still molested ? It’s all in the molester/ rapist/ sexual assaulters’s mind. What a women wears is secondary.
How was I ‘sexy’ ? What wrong have i made ? Is being born ‘dick-less’ an offense? Why does being born a female put us at risk ? Is this back in ice-age where muscle is everything ?
SlutWalk can act as an education platform. Jon, wake up and stop being so ignorant.
Did I say that not dressing sexily won’t get guys attention as well?
My my point was dressing provocatively gets u more attention then needed that’s it.
U clearly miss out my argument.
What educational platform is there to be learned or re learned from this slut walk.. I’m a dude, if I see someone molesting a woman I would do something about it.
Forgive me, but ur campaign or this campaign just makes no sense at all.
You ladies (from the slutwalk society) say the general population of singaporeans are air heads and victim blamming happens conciously/unconsciously. But have u taken a step back, to say that maybe you are the ones blowing this out of proportion and that only these group of ladies think the way u do.
wow, it is clearly evident how daft singaporeans can be!
i find it strange that the comments on this post are blasting singaporeans for being daft or uninformed.. it’s no big shock, we are largely uninformed, and we see the word slut and make easy negative connotation. it’s ugly but that is the reality here.. shouldn’t the whole idea of slutwalk be slightly shifted towards INFORMING and educating singaporeans, rather than assuming we know all about it and then blasting us when we don’t? shouldn’t the webpage intro be geared more towards education and explanation rather than provocative imagery of ppl in tudong being labelled slut? such tactics will only work against the message i feel, and the message is one that is worth preserving and educating ppl on..
raf,
What you say may be true. But don’t you think (some) Singaporeans may be a bit too ignorant. I mean, they have the right to remain silent. Why give remarks when you don’t even know what’s going on.
The manifesto is rather clearly written, if they actually went on to ‘read’ instead of just stopping at the pictures in the main page.
The manifesto is here. Education is here. But the people are coming up with assumptions before even trying to know what’s going on.
They may not be ‘daft’ or ‘uninformed’ in a sense. But they’re highly ignorant and DO NOT WANT to be informed despite information being laid out.
you are definitely spot on about a large percentage of singaporeans who do not want to be informed.. its something we might work on actively by replying ignorant comments with kind information because these ppl might (and even if we reach a small percentage, it might be still worth it) appreciate being corrected when they read the replies even if they would never have actively read up on the issue.. it does seem like an slow endless battle, i guess we do what we can.. haha but of course, a majority of the comments are simply from attention seeking jerks or even preteen kids with no other outlet for vulgarity who just want to provoke.. so yeah.. to quote tin pei ling, sometimes i dunno what to say :p
hmm thinking about it, the comments might serve another purpose in giving us a gauge on just how much of our society is still uninformed or resistant against education on such issues.. and it also lets the average readers realize that this is indeed a cause worth spreading and educating their friends on, when they see how widespread the ignorance is..
“shouldn’t the webpage intro be geared more towards education and explanation rather than provocative imagery of ppl in tudong being labelled slut?”
Provocative imagery is a key part of our movement. Activism is not solely about explaining and educating. Activism often shocks, provokes, and challenges in order to get people talking about important issues that are underrepresented in society.
“shouldn’t the whole idea of slutwalk be slightly shifted towards INFORMING and educating singaporeans, rather than assuming we know all about it and then blasting us when we don’t?”
No one was criticized for being ignorant about SlutWalk. We are drawing attention to people who read The New Paper’s feature and took to the web to make irredeemably hateful comments that perpetuate rape culture, when they could have easily found out what SlutWalk is about via a quick Google search.
anyway, i would suggest conveying the same message in a different name to suit the singaporean sensibilities? the name slutwalk just doesn’t work here in sg, it’s too provocative and simply backfires, why place such a fiery barrier between the people and the message? completely unnecessary and out of place in sg..
and also, TNP is a tabloid paper, it’s been using sex and gore for years and years to sell papers.. i wouldn’t expect any social responsibility from TNP..
Face it, you just want handsome hunks, all the better if they are rich, to stare at you. Why didnt you print my comments regarding that out?
Why do you assume we all want men? Is the idea of women who love women too far out of your heteronormative thought prison?
Why do you see all women as gold diggers, and all men as cash dispensers? Is the thought of men and women having open and honest communication and deeply satisfying sexual relationships, where the ultimate objective is not economic transaction, but mutual pleasure, so bizarre to you?
SlutWalk celebrates sexual diversity. SlutWalk encourages open communication between men and women about sexuality, consent, and better sex. As you are not contributing anything to this discussion, I am going to have to ask you to leave.
Hey Jon,
Are you from the Paleolithic era ? Do you not realise that there are rules people are bound too. Simple one, you don’t cross the road when traffic light is red. Are you so mindless that you have your dick lead you instead of your head and rationale ?
Ever heard of the 3 second rule of eye contact in america ?
I was molested in a public bus when i was wearing a loose black polo- T and straight cut jeans (not skinny jeans ). I dressed ‘conservatively’ hoping not to attract molesters. Then why was i still molested ? It’s all in the molester/ rapist/ sexual assaulters’s mind. What a women wears is secondary.
How was I ‘sexy’ ? What wrong have i made ? Is being born ‘dick-less’ an offense? Why does being born a female put us at risk ? Is this back in ice-age where muscle is everything ?
SlutWalk can act as an education platform. Jon, wake up and stop being so ignorant.
>>>
Yea, you dont cross the road when the traffic light is red. Same goes for dressing provocatively and starting an ironic campaign named “slutwalk” when that’s in fact the last thing you want people to think when they look at you.
You dont think Singaporean women have the best in the entire world? Why not start a poll and ask everyone else and let the world decide? Cant take the heat then stay outta the kitchen. Oh shiat, the irony that women in Singapore cant cook and cant clean.
Just because singaporean women are faced with less discrimination than other countries does not mean that they should shut up and take whatever crap is thrown at them.
Also i think you misused the word “irony” there. The true irony is men expecting women to be able to cook when they cant.
PS. i know quite a few singaporean girls who do cook and clean, including my gf. But i do agree that we have a good life nowadays and the cooking and cleaning thing plaques all young people, not just girls.
Wow, you’re going to die alone when your mail-order bride runs away after leeching your CPF money dry, aren’t you?
I don’t understand. If you guys are so uncomfortable with the connotations of the term ‘slut’ such that you are so anxious to dissociate yourselves from people who don’t properly represent your movement (i.e by taking slut in its most common, mainstream sense; derogatory), then why use the term slut at all?
Why so eager to identify with ‘slut’ if you are unwilling to accept all of the baggage that accompany the term?
Well, that’s a new deal-breaker; if the person you’re seeing is a Grand Master or High Wizard on the EDMW forum on Hardware Zone, turn, run, and change your name now. Oh wait, those titles are for the KKK.
Seriously though, the EDMW mob posts such vile things, I’m surprised they’re allowed to go on. Whenever any piece of news about women and sex come into their attentIon, like the case a while back about the stewardess who was raped overseas, they’re the first to blame the victim, saying seriously horrible things. And they wonder why Singaporean women don’t want to date them.
Shut up
Why? Did I hit the nail on the head? If you keep getting rejected all your life, have you considered that maybe YOU are the common factor? Hate, hate, hate, blame, blame, blame. How about growing up and taking some damn responsibility for the undateable person YOU made yourself into?
When I was 13, a few years ago, I was molested on a public bus. I was dressed in my school uniform, and unlike some of my fellow students, I refused to hike up my skirt or somehow distort the uniform into a more attractive-looking version. In fact, I was often made fun of for refusing to wear tank tops and being more conserative than some of the older generation. The bus was crowded from all the students getting on at the same stop, and a middle-aged man molested me. I was shocked. I didn’t know what to do. The man winked and immediately hopped off at the next stop before I could do or say anything.
I only told one person, my friend, who told me that it was my fault for seducing the man. I realise now I should have consulted adults instead of my peers, but it was too late.
A few years later, I told my mum. She told me that stories like that were very common in her generation of Singapore. Girls would get molested very often on crowded buses or MRTs and no one would speak up, except to their own friends, because 1) They didn’t know what to do, 2) Reporting to the police meant a great deal of humiliation and, 3) Likely nothing would happen to the offender, who might even never be caught. Some others convinced themselves that 1) They had somehow imagined it or, 2) It was their fault for attracting the attention of men, despite the fact that they were dressed unprovocatively.
It is a mindset in Singapore that must be changed. It is already changing, thankfully, with the younger generation, and views changing with the openness of the internet, but it is still driven into the heads of the young. It is not something that is conscious, it is simply the culture in Singapore, and to change a culture, it takes the people. Hence Slutwalk.
If you want to change this, the correct way is to act on it. Shout, scream, make a scene so that others can help you. The thing we need to change is not how men view woman. It is how women view themselves. If they keep quiet about being molested, not only are they preventing people from helping them, they are also empowering the molester by telling him that he can get away with it.
So shout for help, so that we can help you! Even if no one steps forward to help, which I strongly doubt it, you are showing the molester that not everyone will keep quiet.
Most importantly, stopping being just the victim. Women are NOT helpless. They can also be their own heroines.
Wow, Samuel, you get an Irresponsible Advice Award, as well as a Missing The Point Supplementary Prize.
1) Telling a sexual assault survivor what they should have done while the assault was being committed, that what they did do was wrong, is really shitty. (See this: http://www.nyu.edu/999/faqs/sexualassault.html)
2) There is no one ‘correct’ way to react while one is being sexually assaulted. The ‘correct’ reaction to a sexual assault is the one that gets you out alive (which, in many cases, is to run away). Each situation is different and involves many factors which only the person who has experienced it can know. E.g. screaming and shouting could lead to escalation of violence. Telling someone that they should scream and shout in *any* sexual assault situation is really irresponsible.
3) If you think speaking up about sexual assault is easy, don’t you think more people would be able to? And if you do think society makes it easy, then you’ve lived a very sheltered life and maybe you shouldn’t be giving advice to people whose experiences are different from yours.
4) How do sexual assault survivors ‘make’ themselves victims??? It was the assaulter who *chose* to assault.
It’s great that you guys want to rid the stigma and taboo and shame that is associated with female sexuality. Why slut? Given the kind of response that the movement has generated, I don’t think that you guys can hide behind the veneer of your philosophy and insist that it ISN’T an issue of semantics.
The name “SLUTwalk” contradicts your notion of a “victim-blaming society”. Since you are clearly aware that you can still be raped even if you don’t dress like a slut, fighting for your rights to dress as a slut is not going to change anything.
You are still making the basic assumption that we are “fighting for [our] rights to dress as a slut”. I suggest you take five minutes to educate yourself before you make another tragically misinformed statement.
I’m not standing on anyone’s side here and am in fact, trying to sieve out the arguments on both side of the great divide, and hope to put things in perspective in a rational and unemotional way:
The purpose of SW appears to be essentially a statement to individuals out there that women should never be victimized…period…and not least for the way they dress; women should be free to express themselves in their dressing without having to be held responsible or blamed for sexual assault, if it happens. The fact of the matter is that if anyone has the intention to sexually assault a woman, it really doesn’t matter how she is dressed. So dressing is really not a factor in sexual assault.
I agree that if some @**h** already has the intention to assault a woman, he wouldn’t bother about how she is dressed, he would do it anyway. So dressing really is not an issue. Unfortunately, large sections of society, men or women but especially the former, hold on to certain myths that put responsibility of such sexual assaults on women themselves, including the way they dress.
But why do such myths hold up? Are they based on evidence from criminal studies or are they perpetuated through gender/sexual role socialization?
I think women, especially modern, educated ones and of course, the feminists, believe that the myths are perpetuated through (unequal) gender/sexual role socialization. And evidence seems to be in support of this – there is no conclusive evidence, from criminal studies on sexual assault, that dressing is a factor in contributing to women becoming sexual assault victims. And far from possibly what most would think, sexual assault frequently is enacted by someone known to the victim.
So, based on evidence, it appears that the argument that skimpy dressing leads a woman to be preyed on by someone (a stranger) ogling holds no weight. If anything, the perpetrator would use the woman’s dressing as an excuse for the assault, which he most likely had already decided upon, regardless of how the woman is dressed.
So does that mean the blokes (men) are wrong when they forbid their better half from exposing too much skin lest something untoward happens? Based strictly on the evidence showing no relation between dressing and sexual assault, the blokes apparently are clueless that they are wrong. Is there anything meaningful then to whatever the men are trying to say? Well, from what I can fathom, here it is:
Women need to be aware that they WILL get attention if they dress in a certain way – while it might be true that they will get attention regardless, evidence on salience and perception, indicates that anything or anyone who stands out from the crowd will be attended to more compared to something or someone who blends in with the crowd. The psychology of women postulates that women’s self-esteem is tied to their body image, more so compared to men. Thus, it is no surprise that women dress up to feel good about themselves. However, it is also true that part of that feel-good factor comes from the attention that they receive from others. And the others here include both other women and men generally. Unfortunately, somewhere unconsciously in a woman’s head, she envisions the attention to come from good looking men but the reality is that the attention that is given cannot be selected – men of all shapes, sizes and types will give it…and the more stand-out your attire is, the more attention it would grab from a larger and more diverse group of men, based on perceptual salience alone. Make that outfit a “sexy” one, and you can add in sexual perversion to the equation (besides perceptual salience).
So the blokes are right about women’s dressing and the attention they would get because of that (based on evidence) but by making that connection from here to sexual assault, then they are wrong (based on evidence). The women, on the other hand, whilst maintaining consistency in their stand that dressing should and will not lead to sexual assault, must be aware and acknowledge the fact that if they want to dress skimpily, they must be prepared for the consequence of unwanted attention from men (but this precludes sexual assault).
Good job.. Very well explained and rational. No body knows what this is cause is all about anymore. In my point of view, every argument that u have just laid out would education for these slut walk organizers.
really, how can we expect men to understand since they only have enough blood to flow in their best friend and brai…. wait – yup, only enough blood to flow down there.
Jon, so you can actually read an comprehend English ? Oh wait. Selectively literate/ illiterate based on evidences that support own skewed point of views ?
Heyya laracenciel04,
Peace to rainbows ! <3 ur comment
*Nobody
*you
*educate
Educate is a verb, also known as an action word. Education is a noun, also known as a thing word. As in, “You should get an education, Jon.”
larcenciel04,
Plenty of men are both sexual and intelligent— the two are not mutually exclusive. You are perpetuating a stereotype of men as ruled by their dicks that is simplistic, fallacious, and degrading to men. Men are perfectly capable of understanding complex issues in addition to seeking sexual pleasure. Many SlutWalk supporters are sexually-liberated, intellectually-stimulating men— just visit the post before mine to see Benjamin Seet confidently dissect the social construction of “sluttiness”.
SJ,
So your point is: Men are right when they “forbid” women from wearing “sexy” outfits, since “showing too much skin” leads to “unwanted attention”, and even “sexual perversion”.
You still don’t get it. No one should ever forbid anyone else from behaving the way they want to make them less vulnerable to abuse. We should be focusing on changing the behaviour of abusers instead.
SJ,
Futhermore: You use the term “sexual perversion” like it’s a negative thing. You do realize SlutWalk is about being inclusive and diverse, and embraces a lot of things society would consider sexually deviant? Just because society has defined something as “sexual perversion”, does not mean they aren’t simply behaviours that, while unusual, are just variants of natural human sexuality— same-sex love, the ability to enjoy intimate open relationships, and the freedom to experiment with dominance and submission, are just a few examples of things that have been unfairly classified as “sexual perversion”.
Of all the comments in this post, I do think SJ has explained it best and is the most neutral of all explanations.
I thank you for the most neutral comment in the comments section so far. The rest of the comments are obviously leaning towards either the right or the left.
Females are not the only one that dress up, you know? Males and females both dress up according to trends and what not. Both want to feel good about the image they project to the rest of the world. Just because current fashion trends are slightly more skimpy for women doesnt really show correlation to anything. I see you have already pointed out the lack of correlation between dressing and rape, kudos.
I think us blokes just project out own sexuality onto females. We know what arouses us, we know that we get aroused easily so we assume that every other male around us is the same, and we want to protect the females around us from that (when it is inappropriate). Thing is, arousal and need is part and parcel of life, it’s natural and we cannot and should not stop it. Rape on the other hand is a physical act that we CAN control. We need to differentiate the two. Therefore, it is right on the girls’ part to point out that really, us men CAN stop rape, and should stop rape because no matter what they wear, those who do not stop themselves will still rape.
In all, we men need to stop blaming and projecting our lack of self control on girls, and their dressing. Stop using rape as an excuse to control their dressing. It really isnt.
However, how much skin is appropriate to show in public, and what should be kept in private on other grounds, that is a whole other topic, and waaay more subjective.
ok, since this site does not date comment entries, I have no idea when this commented was posted. So at the risk of sounding outdated and past the momentum of this thread, I do agree that SJ has made the most rational and neutral explanation thus far, while raising the right questions everyone who does not fully understand the cause is asking.
First, I do agree with what the manifesto is trying to prove, but whether the Slutwalk campaign can actually achieve it is another issue altogether. What I want to add on to SJ’s comment is that generally most crimes, including rape, occur when the individual has lost his sense of inhibition over legal and moral values and in turn, targets the victim when he/she is in a vulnerable state. I also think that not just with rape, many crimes do not occur at the spur of the moment. The criminal tends to have a sustained and growing sentiment towards the impending issue of the crime, and when the opportunity arises, he/she will be in a state of overwhelming loss of control such that basic moral values are thrown out the window and the crime is committed. This I feel is how robbery, murder, theft can also be drawn as parallels, albeit with less long term devastation to the surviving victim, to rape.
What I am saying is that you dressing as you wish does not co-relate to victimizing yourself to rape, but it does not help either in protecting those who are likely to be vulnerable to attacks. I think Slutwalk does a great deal in uniting the female gender through shared empathy, but it does not address the issue of vulnerable women getting raped at all. Now I am not saying that the Slutwalk is useless, but I would ask where do you guys see the endpoint to Slutwalk and how else are you going to achieve this?
Mark, thanks for the question. More than a few people have asked us similarly. You ask, “Where do you guys see the endpoint to SlutWalk and how else are you going to achieve this?”
We recognize that SlutWalk is not going to change things overnight. We are interested in first raising awareness regarding issues surrounding sexual assault, victim-blaming, and slut-shaming; to spark dialogue, and educate. This is the reason why we are having so many fringe events in Nov and a separate day for talks, workshops, and discussions a day before the main SlutWalk at Hong Lim Park. Rape culture is not something that can be eradicated immediately — it is something that has to constantly fought over an extended period of time. Victim-blaming and slut-shaming (as with the myths surrounding sexual assault) are currently so embedded in the societal consciousness that the only thing we can do right now is to keep talking about it. We want to keep forming networks of safe spaces and to provide people with the skills (verbal and otherwise) to feel empowered.
SlutWalk on the 4th of Dec is not an endpoint, not by any stretch. Instead, it is a beginning. We intend to keep holding events big and small under our collective banner and hopefully to organize SlutWalk Singapore 2012 as well.
- Cher / SlutWalk Singapore
Oh sweetie, they aren’t saying that “dressing should and will not lead to sexual assault”. They’re saying that it shouldn’t bloody matter what a woman is dressed in, should she be raped. There is a very big difference, although it’s starting to look like one of those magic eye pictures that some people can’t see, no matter how much they squint.
Ok, let’s say a woman was raped. They go to court. The rapist’s lawyers point out that she was wearing skimpy clothing and use that as a excuse for their client. Do you think that’s ok? I seriously hope your answer is no. And if that’s your answer, well, you now understand the premise for Slutwalk, congratulations. If you’re ok with that, we might need to sell more muumuus in Singapore.
But Your Honour, the muumuu was easy to remove (she should have known that surely, the slut) and she was almost naked underneath it (the slut) ……….
@SJ
The point I would like to clarify with you:
I presume you’ve heard of the phenomenon called “eve teasing” in India? Tell me, were/are the women who got “teased” skimpily dressed? Or is it because the perpetrators feel a sense of entitlement over the women, the “weaker” sex? How about sexual harassment at the workplace? Is it because the victim is skimpily dressed? Going by your argument, then women in temperate climates should feel the safest during winter time since they are all bundled up. Certainly school girls too should be free from unwanted attention from grown men because surely the girls are not skimpily dressed? How about women molested in crowded trains in Japan? Were they skimpily dressed as well?
Is being skimpily dressed the only reason, or even a reason, for unwanted attention, or are there other more important factors at play? I’m curious to hear your views. If you want to pay attention to someone, do so, but back off once it is made clear that the attention is not desired or wanted. And surely, it is not too much to ask that this attention be paid in a civil and polite manner. In any other circumstances, you will not barge in and make yourself a nuisance to someone else; so, why is it any different when it comes to women, regardless of how they dress? Men may be visual creatures, but this does not make them dick heads, does it?
To say skimpy dressing (do you mean being slutty?) is THE cause of unwanted attention is simplistic, in my opinion.
Gemini,
I’d like to reiterate that my post was not meant to be partial to any side of the apparent divide. If you were to peruse my post again, carefully, you’d realise that I made and acknowledged the point that skimpy dressing is NOT a factor contributing to sexual assault. Also, although my post talked about skimpy dressing (which is one of the points of SW) leading to greater attention, wanted or unwanted, based on evidence of salience and the human perceptual system, I did NOT say that it is THE cause of unwanted attention. NEITHER did I, at any time, referred to skimpy dressing as “slutty dressing”.
So, do calm down please…I appreciate the fact that issues underlying SW is a matter very close to the hearts of women all over the world and as such, there might be SW supporters, men or women, who would get pretty emotional about the cause. However, I don’t think being emotional would forward SW’s cause as it would make one interpret or perceive things that are not there – just as how you have mis-read my post or tried to second guess me by putting words into my mouth that I did NOT verbalise. Really, I don’t think being emotional is helpful at all. This point about being emotional applies to anti-SW supporters as well – it won’t help their arguments once they become emotional and defensive and start slinging mud, passing them off as legit arguments against SW.
(SJ, here is my comment to your reply, as I did not want to start a new thread.)
First of all, stop telling people to calm down for it smacks of arrogance on your part, especially when you tag yourself impartial, and thus above all the fray; this brings nothing to the debate at all (I mean, I could have labelled you defensive and all). Secondly, to talk about skimpy dressing and not draw a parallel to being slutty (even while you say, rightly so, that sexual assaults have nothing to do with skimpy dressing) is interesting to say the least given that the discussions on SluWalk usually centre around the word “slutty dressing”, and which equals (unless you are a pedantic academic) to skimpy dressing. Are you unaware of this? Thirdly, you fail to answer my questions. If I were to truly second guess your intentions, I will not be asking you direct questions, and I asked them because of my interpretation, and therefore a chance for you to clarify yourself and to put “my interpretation” right.
So rather than labelling people emotional, it would have been far better for you to answer my questions directly, and to have cleared any “misconception” that I may have had. That more than anything else, would have made your points much clearer, leaving the readers themselves to form an impression of you.
“Ultimately, a name is just a name. ‘Slut’ doesn’t mean anything until a meaning is given – a context and societal meaning. It is hard to understand maybe because some people are not part of this in-group and it’s hard to empathize and even if they do, it’s temporal. It’s not just ALL about one’s dressing.”
You are being completely disingenuous. Deal with the fact that mainstream society (even non-misogynists; rational, intelligent, sensible people) has a specific understanding of ‘slut’ that does not in any measure correlate with redressing female disenfranchisement. By your logic, it would essentially be legitimate for me to abort my baby but be ‘pro-life’.
You know what, this is BOOGATI bitches, i’m getting the FUCK OUTTA HERE!
Assuming I’m a rapist and i see 2 women – one scantily clad and one not – I’m more propelled to make advances towards the one whose bosom is pouring out.
There, case closed.
You gotta watch more Criminal Minds. If you’re a rapist, assuming that you’re a serial rapist and not an opportunity rapist, you’ll go for a particular type, be it hair, body, or face, regardless of what they’re wearing, and you’ll stalk your victim and grab them when they’re vulnerable. The victim would usually be someone who reminds your of someone you obsess about. If you were an opportunity rapist, well, you’re probably too cowardly to assault anyone but someone who’s dead drunk and helpless, probably a friend or an acquaintance who thought she’d be safe with you. And it’s “Doesn’t take”, unless you’re a rapper.
I just wanted to act like one
In all seriousness though, that was enlightening. I’m just talking from a man’s standpoint and not a rapist’s :p. All i’m saying is that it MIGHT help if victim didn’t dress provocatively. Then again, i’m not blaming the woman, it’s just a safety issue. It’s not like I’m a psychologist and have done research on the minds of rapists or to-be rapists.
Patriarchal society seems to think that if a woman dresses a certain way, she is asking to be treated a certain way – to be called names, to be propositioned right on the street in public, to be molested, to be raped, to be viewed as something other than a woman just doing her own thing. Sure, calling it ‘Slutwalk’ may seem controversial and contradictory to some, but it’s just us saying: so. fucking. what. I can dress in a way that you deem “slutty”, but this shouldn’t impugn my character; shouldn’t remove my rights as a person, my freedom to walk on the damn street without being assaulted, and my safety.
It’s also a comment on rape culture – when a woman is raped/sexually assaulted, the first question on people’s lips is, “what was she wearing?” That is why the organiser’s named it Slutwalk. It is the assumption that every woman who is assaulted is asking for it, no matter what they were wearing. Victim blaming, slut shaming, rape culture. This is what we live in. This is what Slutwalk is standing up against.
Boom. All the answers you need.
no, actually it answers nothing about rape culture at all. as you said so, if the first question people ask is “what was she wearing”, Slutwalk should educate people on the right issues to look at, not respond with “who gives a fuck what i’m wearing?”
If I am understanding right from the well explained site on Slutwalk NYC, rape seems to be divided into the rapist and the poor victim. This issue is further isolated into rape culture and victim-blaming, and that sexual violence seems to be perpetuated as a fact of life and it is the woman’s fault for dressing as it is. I feel this is a little short-sighted. First, it is NOT a fact of life, just like how all other crimes have been occurring through the ages but are NOT a fact of life. these are constant moral lapses in society and are dealt with by the law. All men and women who are sex offenders are punished and condemned so because though we are incredibly sexual beings, those who cannot exercise that self-control deserve to be punished.
Slutwalk seems to only attempt to address the victim-blaming aspect, which in essence really has no effect on the prevalence of rape in itself. Yes, I do agree that this creates a powerful support group for rape survivors and I would never question the good Slutwalk has done for many women. However, to just categorize Slutwalk as a “controversial” name is avoiding the issue. “Slut” has been a negative and derogatory term from the beginning, and I am not sure what there is to reclaim from such a word. Naming yourself “Slutwalk” feels a little like circular reasoning when the women you are trying to protect is de-sexualising the very women rights you are fighting for.
Here, from the Slutwalk NYC site:
“Initially, the word was chosen for SlutWalk as an ironic response to the glib victim-blaming by a Toronto officer that women could actually prevent rape by not dressing like “sluts.” Some SlutWalk supporters have co-opted the term as a means of reclaiming the insult and defusing it of its sting by wearing it as a badge of pride to indicate sexual self-awareness and humanity. Others have rallied around the word in order to highlight its inherent absurdity and illegitimacy; while still others seek to remove the word from our popular lexicon, believing it to be an inherently violent term. All these views are welcome at our march and in our organizing; a multiplicity of voices is the greatest strength against prejudiced monolithic ideologies.”
Sadly, I feel like most of the Singaporean populace is just going to see the word slutwalk and be like “trololol we can just pick our sluts off the parade.”
To everyone who doesn’t believe that victims of sexual assault are judged based on what they wear/how they behave or that they end up being blamed for the assault, seriously grow a brain. because I was called a slut after it happened to me, and I swear it wasn’t my intention to let that happen to me. SlutWalk is not blowing anything up, it is merely showing you a truth you do not want to see.
It isn’t victims of sexual assault who should be controlled, it is these rapists. They are the ones who pose a threat to society. It’s unfair to say that the dangerous person can do whatever the fuck he wants and the rest of us should just sit down and suck it up.
I empathize with the victims but, what has it got to do with the other women who are just riding on the wave of this feminism issue? It’s not like they got raped and know how it feels like to be judged that way. But I understand where you’re coming from. I’m not defending rapists or anything, they deserve hell and should take the blame. I believe what a lot of people are trying to say is that naming it “slutwalk” doesn’t actually help. People who look from the sidelines are going to think that this is absurd and there’s some serious circular reasoning going on with this naming convention. Besides, the whole “I don’t give a rat’s ass” attitude portrays a immature outlook towards this serious issue,
Instead, a different type of awareness campaign should be put forth instead.
So, you as a man, are able to empathize with rape victims, but women (non-rape victims) are “just riding on the wave of this feminism issue? It’s not like they got raped and know how it feels like to be judged that way.” Wow! Indeed, you are Mr Sensitivity, one who says he does not blame victims, but feels it is quite within his right to say “it MIGHT help if victim didn’t dress provocatively”; even as Mr Sensitivity acknowledges he is neither a psychologist nor an expert on rape-victims or rapists, he still refuses to educate himself on rape myths or rapists’ motives before posting his comments (gosh, is it that difficult to google?).
None is so blind as he who refuses to see ……
u mad?
I think she doesn’t have a brain. It is so fucking hard to comprehend that your chances of getting molested are higher when you’re wearing NOTHING and people are oogling at you? Its fucking retarded campaign to call it SLUTWALK. If you want to make sense and get the GENERAL MALE COMMUNITY to understand, i.e your DAD, your UNCLES,. Use a more appropriate name, like “RAPE CULTURE”
@Don”t take a rocket scientist to figure this out..
too difficult to understand? comprehension skills not your thing?
@waste of time
So, renaming “SlutWalk” to “Rape Culture” would have men like yourself on the side of the women unquestioningly? Really? And you will not dole out (useless) advice such as “don’t tempt men (and rape) by dressing provocatively”, or “tone down your dressing style if you don’t want to attract attention” or “don’t be a slut” or “rapes happen because (strange) men cannot control their urges” or “mainly only skimpily dressed women get raped, mainly by strange men, mainly in deserted places”? You will acknowledge evidence that shows there is no link between dress style and sexual violence? That rapes are most likely to be committed by assailants already known to the victims? You will actually demolish rape myths? You will actually learn more about rapes/sexual assaults and the motivation behind rapes/sexual assaults in general? You will not blame women and girls? You will tell guys to respect women (as they would another guy) and no means no? Seriously? Yes, pigs do fly.
coolstory bro
Firstly Curse TNP la. KNNCCB
Moving on….
Definition of Slut:
1.
a. A person, especially a woman, considered sexually promiscuous.
b. A woman prostitute.
2. A slovenly woman; a slattern.
* Sloven meaning
A person who is habitually messy or careless.
* Slattern
A Slob
I’m sure there’re many closet supporters for the true cause and intentions of Slut Walk but are maybe too shy/reserved/hesitant (NOT because of the trolls and shammings) but cld it be because of the big “S” word? It’s only allowed by SG organizers because she sees it as “a platform to educate”. Which is DILUTING the true objective of Slut Walk. Don’t you think? Because I thought after the red neck cop fucked up and started to victim blame instead of penalizing the crime and/or the criminal, the whole movement was with the objective to “reclaim the word (slut)”
Honestly there’re many impressionable people out there, not surprisingly many among the supporters of Slut Walk. The message is to stop victim blaming NOT only for rape cases but for ALL CRIMES and AGAINST ALL CRIMINALS yes? So this to the younger supporters or younger audience is no way synonymous with “reclaiming the term (slut)” instead people have now blended this entire term and concept to “having the right to express our sexuality” when the true feminist movement is to have the right to express our feminity! Right? Eg: if I think being muscular and ribbed like smaller version of a man is hot, can I do it without being accused of pumping testosterone or being labeled a dyke? By reclaiming a derogatory word in the dictionary is slamming the entire point and objective of a feminist movement! Crudely put, gay movements demand freedom to choose their partners regardless of gender they never call themselves or associate their movements/campaigns with open words like “Sodomy”, “Butt-fuckers”, and other such terms. I’m sorry for the crudeness and not being eloquent. Apologies but hope the jist is there.
Being a Slut by definition is not only being wonton but also being dirty. Literally! Like rolling in mud or going to bed sweaty and grimy. *sloven
Most importantly, based on the above, even if the KNN TNP did not use these “out of context” and mocking statements, would the public still stereotype the true cause of this movement? Especially haters and trolls and ignorant A holes who will jump to the conclusion of the negative stigma associated with the “s” word? Worst! What about victims of rape too traumatized and too self conscious to be involved in a Slut Walk?
Anyways please read this article, the link is below. I never if not seldom oppose any such freedom of expressions and especially feminist, activist movements. But what broke my heart and I’m sure many crime victims’ hearts is the last comment in the article “Besides, taking part in what looks like an endless “vicars and tarts’ street party is not just bad-ass. It’s FUN”
Last say: “FUN”?? Communicating the message of NOT victim blaming is fun??! Which makes me feel even more sad. With such a name for such a powerful and relevant societal problem, even if ALL the female population or ALL the crime victims were to comprise this movement, will the world still take Slut Walk seriously? Food for thought.
Sorry here’s the article link: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/women_shealth/8510743/These-slut-walk-women-are-simply-fighting-for-their-right-to-be-dirty.html
It is amazing that the naysayers, the ones that are getting their knickers into a twist, over the use of the word “slut”, fail to perform the simplest of tasks. Namely to look at the home page of this website, and the teaser video produced for this event, on how the word “slut” is used in reality. If the naysayers had performed these simple tasks, they would have realized that the word “slut” is opportunistic, i.e. it can be used against anyone and everyone who does not conform to someone else’s idea of how a “good, upstanding” woman should dress or behave. That is, a woman could be in jeans, sarong, tudung, cheongsam or sari, and still be called a slut because something about her upsets another person who hurls the word “slut” at her.
Instead what we get here are naysayers who go strictly by the dictionary definition of the word, conveniently forgetting (or is it denial) how casually the word is thrown around. And worse still, they perpetuate rape myths that somehow, if women dress “less provocatively” (whatever this means), they would get less unwanted attention (despite examples that show otherwise in this very forum), and therefore there would be less rapes. Guess educating oneself is not the forte of the naysayers.
Gemini. Be careful u are becoming like TNP. Do not lift parts of my stAtements because u put things out of context. I never once shanked the movement for it having scantily clad women in fact that’s the dictionary’s meaning. As such an antagonist, isn’t SW meant to reclaim the infamous word? Yes to reclaim the word coz some dumb cop said it. I am all for the cause and can see the good intentions of this feminist movement extending to victims of all genders and of all crimes and even of all stereotypes. So please back off, take it easy. Think once about actual victims, blamed by society for their tragic encounter with a predator, having 2nd thoughts at associating themselves with the movement. Just because of the “S” word. Because like you it’s been used out of context that’s just all. I’m speaking up for the closet supporters. And like in my thoughts, if TNP didn’t publish that article, would there Be more people coming forward pro SW than after the trolls and shakers came in?
First of all, why do you assume my reply was directed at you? Because you happen to quote the dictionary verbatim? And the naysayers happen to not to, even though their interpretations are obviously dictionary-led? Are you a naysayer? Did I say so? Did I even reply to your comment? So chill; I was not commenting on your post. And as for becoming like the TNP, if you can’t tell the difference, then so be it.
But your remarks re: victims – Will there be victims and survivors who will not join this walk? Absolutely! Just like you will have victims and survivors who will not join the walk even if the name were to change to march for victims of crime*. Singapore is not the west where someone openly talks about their rape trauma (and even this isn’t common in the west). But there will also be others who are tired of being taken advantage of, even after conforming to society’s expectations of dressing and behaviour, tired of being blamed for someone else’s actions, tired of all the victim blaming and excuses made on behalf of the perpetrators, tired of the double standards, and tired of the rape myths (and myths of the victims) being pushed out, who would want to make a stand.
*even with a different name, you can bet your bottom dollar you will have the attention back on victims, specifically of sexual assaults/rapes, and “advice” on how best to prevent them.
Silly Singaporean women, no wonder more men in Singapore are getting married with foreigners. Dumb bitches want 5Cs and ang mohs for their GCPs. Stop that silly movement and go make us a sandwich.
Why don’t you get a man to make you a sandwich instead since most chefs are men. I’m sure they can make a really tasty one.
Slutwalk shouldnt even have to exist. If people are so angry about it then why don’t they just educate themselves a little. If a woman gets raped, it’s not her fault. We should be able to wear whatever we want. Just don’t rape. Rape is bad, rape is wrong. I’m sure the men of our community are smart enough to know that. How would you feel if we placed you in a situation where you straight men would feel uncomfortable? If sure many of you wouldn’t like it if another man came and touched you inappropirately.
Isn’t that another stereotype that most men are chefs? I’m going to start a movement
NOT ALL MEN ARE CHEFS WALK AND MAKE A HOOHAA outta it. 
((
Oh wow! We are still living in a bubble aren’t we? Supporters of SlutWalk SG being judged just for the word “Slut”. We’ve got your attention now, so why don’t you try to understand the message that we are trying to put across.
“SLUT” is a very strong word which most people tend to generalize it to be a “bad” word. Unfortunately (or Fortunately) women are made with a different mould. We are born with curves, some of us with better assets (be it a DD cup size, size 24 waist or hips like JLO or just born pretty) than everyone else and some of us no matter what we wear people will look at us as a slut just because we are successful, confident and we are just comfortable with our body.
Define “dressing modestly” – remember we come from a different ethnic group – wearing a knee length skirt with a proper shirt maybe modest to you but to some, its provocative.
How about sex workers? Or the KTV hostess? – they dressed a certain way but does that mean you can rape and abuse them? If you say yes, you deserve to be raped. Most sex workers are a victim of human trafficking even if they are not, most are not given a choice,. No women want to be in this industry.
How about uniforms? The cheongsam that PR ladies have to wear in a 5 star hotel? or the SQ Kebaya ?
Let’s not forget the foreign domestic workers. They are sexually abused and not many has come up to stand up for their rights just because they are wearing shorts and a spaghetti strap top while bending down to scrub the floor?
And so if we have to protect ourselves like how you compare rape and robbery, then come the discrimination? Ask yourself, when you walk into a shop and be greeted by 2 ladies – 1 wearing a nice fitted dress and a little make up and the other loose shirt, loose pants whom will you start talking to? Ah yes, 1st impression counts. Be it in an interview, in a workplace – we cant stop others to judge us with their eyes.
2008 – an article in Australia indicate that Singapore Sex abuse cases are similar to China – it is called a silent crime. And theres a few help line available and its the Singaporean who said: Rape is rare and only when it happens the police will enforce the law.
Ongoing – Section 157(d) of the Evidence Act – which allows a rape victim’s sexual history to be used against the victim in court. Its 2011! Shouldnt this be gone like a long time ago? So are you saying an SQ girl wearing her uniform walking home, who happens to be a widow or a divorcee – it is ok to rape her?
Ongoing – UN Report indicates that Singapore is under Tier 2 – for a destination country where men and women and girls are subjected to sex trafficking and forced labour.
Ongoing – The Black American female community refuse to stand up because of their slavery history, no matter what they wear no matter what they do they will look upon as sluts. Is it fair for them?
I am in the oil and gas industry surrounded by men from all over the world and travel with them onboard rigs and vessels. I have tattoos and piercings and I have to talk like a man and be all macho just to be a part of the group and prevent from getting sexually abused. People call me a slut,and mind you I am usually in full PPE – coveralls and safety boots, just because I talk like them. And they still call me a slut when I dress modestly in jeans and a simple tshirt just because my cute little tattoo is visible or because I am surrounded by them. So am I wrong working in this industry? trying to make more so that in future i have enough savings should my husband fell sick or retrenched? Am I wrong to ensure that I have 100K in my bank account so that my child can go to Uni?(100K is an average cost for a child’s education from pre-school to a local uni btw)
Summarizing this, through Slutwalk the female community worldwide are trying to educate others of the meaning of STOP, NO and RESPECT. We cant stop you having wild thoughts when we walk across the street, all we can do is to educate, like how you educate your child – stealing is wrong and pass the message on.
Look around you – among your friends, your family, how many of them have a short skirt? or a spaghetti strap top? or skinny jeans? do they deserve to be raped?
I want to be able to walk around in a pair of shorts and a spaghetti strap top after a long day at work in the shipyard in a stinky coveralls and feel safe walking back home. You just cant help that some areas outside the shipyard has poor lighting or back alleys are the alleys where you throw your rubbish. Unfortunately i have to walk through those alleys and I dont want to be in fear everytime.
Otherwise, get rid of all the uniforms! the sex trades! the discrimination! and give us only TITANIUM ARMORS.
Let us reverse the roll
I wonder what will the men call the walk -Wankers walk? Jerks walk? Think about it.
PS: To the TNP team, I think you should just stick to entertainment gossips. This should be at the front page of your paper: SINGAPORE: HOT SPOT FOR HUMAN TRAFFICKING!
Shimona
You, like Gemini, have read my post and extrapolated beyond what I had written.
Read carefully again and you’d see that I did not say that men are right to forbid women to wear “sexy” clothing – I had merely asked if men are wrong in doing so and this is definitely not tantamount to saying that it is right to do so. I only said that men are right about “sexy” clothing and the attention that it is likely to attract (based on empirical evidence).
I stand by what I said about “sexy” clothing and unwanted attention as it is substantiated by evidence but again, if you read carefully, I did not say that “sexy” dressing will lead to sexual pervasion. My point was that any dressing that stands out (salient) from the norm will draw attention (wanted or otherwise); if that dressing stands out in a “sexy” sort of way, it will draw additional attention from individuals who may be sexually perverse.
On the subject of “sexual perversion”, I believe that you have unfairly imposed your own presuppositions on how I define the term. For your information, I do not classify homosexuality (for instance) under this category. I define sexual perversion as any sexual behaviour enacted that results in negative outcomes for both perpetrator and victim. Note, I talk about behaviour, what may be seen…I’m not even going to go into cognition (i.e., what and how people think) as the latter may not be amenable to objective assessment.
I can see, from my own experience here, that however one tries to take an objective and non-sided stance on an issue, in this case, the SW, people inevitably bring their own biases, expectations, and beliefs that would result in interpretations that distort the original intent of the writer.
I’m sorry that I had failed in my attempt to provide a middle objective ground for both sides. But it’s a lesson learnt and I shall bow out of this discussion and wish the SW organisers every success this coming weekend.
SJ,
Take some responsibility for what you wrote. Context matters. You can’t ask a question and follow it up with reaffirming statements, then claim you were just asking a purely theoretical question about whether it is okay to limit other people’s personal freedom. You strongly implied that men are right to forbid women to wear what they like— After asking: Does it mean “blokes (men) are wrong” to forbid women from showing too much skin? You asserted: There is something “meaningful” in “what the men are trying to say”. You explained, “Women need to be aware that they WILL get attention if they dress in a certain way”. You warned, “Make that outfit a “sexy” one, and you can add in sexual perversion to the equation”. You made a cowardly snipe at individual freedom and autonomy, and now you’re backtracking by claiming you were just asking a rhetorical question.
I understand your point perfectly. You try to wrap it up in a smokescreen of plausibility by using irrelevant neuroscience jargon, selective psychobabble, and contradictory statements to misdirect and obfuscate— but you just made it perfectly clear: Women who dress sexy may attract attention from rapists. As you put it: if “dressing stands out in a “sexy” sort of way”, it “will draw additional attention from individuals who may be sexually perverse”, where “sexual perversion” means “sexual behaviour enacted that results in negative outcomes for both perpetrator and victim”. Why do you want women to know this? Because, you declare, you believe women “must be aware and acknowledge the fact that if they want to dress skimpily, they must be prepared for the consequence of unwanted attention from men”. You show absolute disregard for the fact that: Women are already bombarded with warnings to modify their behaviour so they won’t attract the attention of potential rapists.
If you are going to make up your own definitions for words, then protest that I am “imposing” my “presuppositions” on your definition when I point out that you are wrong, I see no point in continuing this discussion. You spin meaningless, speculative pseudoscience about what goes on “in a woman’s head”. And yet— you lack even the basic understanding necessary for the proper use of a sexological term. “Sexual perversion” is just a failure to conform to the sexual norm. By and large, deviant sexuality does not harm anyone, and what we label “perverse” are just natural expressions of sexual diversity.
Here’s something for those who say SW is not needed is Singapore society. Here in NZ, very similar attitudes exist. Many of the comments made are simply reflections of comments I’ve read in response to every SlutWalk (or Mumbai’s Maalchaal). It is a problem that is fundamentally the same the world over.
As for standard of dress, two women walking near me in one of the NZ walks were commenting about how they chose to wear pajamas and a dressing gown, and another wore a business suit. Because that is what they wore when they were raped.
These comments are beyond normal trolling. They’re part of a sick global rape culture. Normal trolls you ignore. This stuff, you drag it into the harsh light of day.
As others say, these comments are WHY Slutwalk is needed. And as much as they might like to think it, they’re not being very original. Most of these comments I’ve seen thousands of times from dozens of countries.
GoodGravey, the reason why you see “most of these comments thousands of times from dozens of countries” is because there are so many people who think that this so-called movement (pun intended) is so misplaced and illogical.
It is precisely WHY there are so many people who think this is just another of those fashionable copycat display by people who have nothing better to do
If you want to dress like a slut, it is your right to do so. But don’t think it has to cross the minds of us guys to rape anyone, mentally or otherwise.
And good, it’s now raining sluts and slobs … I mean, cats and dogs.
is this how you women wanna teach your daughters that it is OK to be slutty? very irresponsible. I’m teaching my children that sexual violence is not acceptable. similarly it is equally important to teach them how to protect themselves by not being at the wrong place at the wrong time, to be vigilant. I’m happy my wive and allot my female colleagues share the same view. be more original ladies, don’t just blindly follow others. read the reactions in every country where these copycat movement was conducted.
Firstly I would like to commend the movement for standing up for what they believe and put it into action.
“It degenerates into a big victim-blaming, slut-shaming wankfest”: As someone being listed in the list of comments in this category, I feel that I was being taken out of context. Granted I did not know of the group’s ultimate goal and from what I gather from the name of the event, I gathered that it was a movement for women to wear what they want, instead of what you listed as stopping victim blaming from taking place. I would like to clarify the two are not synonymous with each other. My comment was to the former interpreted goal, to which I commented that women should be allowed to wear what they wear, but they have to understand the reactions society will have on the person. Just like you won’t wear jeans to a job interview, there are societal responses to the outfit you wear and the image you portray. This has nothing to do with rape nor victim blaming.
Of course one may argue that I should familiarise with the movement’s goal before commenting, but I would offer my response that the name “SlutWalk” does no favours to the credibility of the movement. I mean not to shame any victims of rape nor do I enjoy being included in a “wankfest”. While I understand the frustration of being misrepresented by the media (ie. newpaper), I do hope that the writer not be tempted to the use of superlatives and continue to show restrain in his or her responses to the seemingly idiotic comments.
An apt advice to go by, “Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.”